Comments on: How is a Program Like a Universe? http://theta.codesimplicity.com/post/a-program-is-a-universe/ Scientology and Computer Programming Thu, 22 Sep 2011 16:20:49 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Max Kanat-Alexander http://theta.codesimplicity.com/post/a-program-is-a-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-343 Max Kanat-Alexander Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:48:40 +0000 http://theta.codesimplicity.com/archives/12#comment-343 Well, that's a good point, but I think it's theoretically possible to perceive and know anything that can have an effect on us, so we could at some point theoretically model the entire universe. But I think you might be right that *computers* cannot model things outside the frame of reference of the universe (even if we could perceive and measure those things by their effect on the universe). -Max Well, that’s a good point, but I think it’s theoretically possible to perceive and know anything that can have an effect on us, so we could at some point theoretically model the entire universe. But I think you might be right that *computers* cannot model things outside the frame of reference of the universe (even if we could perceive and measure those things by their effect on the universe).

-Max

]]> By: jay http://theta.codesimplicity.com/post/a-program-is-a-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-342 jay Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:22:26 +0000 http://theta.codesimplicity.com/archives/12#comment-342 Yes exactly, given sufficient technology and time the ant could eventually realise and measure and account for the existance of say human beings but to view and exist in the same perspecive of humans would be near enough impossible in it's current state. So I guess the point is our computers create a model of our world as we see it (our specific universe). As technology improves we may be able to prove the existance of other perspectives and even use some of their qualities but because of our fixed perspective we may never be able to experience or model or view the entire universe properly. I imagine things such as true artificial intelligence lie outside our current perspective. Yes exactly, given sufficient technology and time the ant could eventually realise and measure and account for the existance of say human beings but to view and exist in the same perspecive of humans would be near enough impossible in it’s current state. So I guess the point is our computers create a model of our world as we see it (our specific universe). As technology improves we may be able to prove the existance of other perspectives and even use some of their qualities but because of our fixed perspective we may never be able to experience or model or view the entire universe properly. I imagine things such as true artificial intelligence lie outside our current perspective.

]]> By: Max Kanat-Alexander http://theta.codesimplicity.com/post/a-program-is-a-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-341 Max Kanat-Alexander Thu, 09 Jul 2009 12:57:36 +0000 http://theta.codesimplicity.com/archives/12#comment-341 Well, as an ant I could be perceive all those things. I'm just not at the moment. There's a big difference between being unable to perceive something and not currently perceiving it. You're saying that the ant can experience the effects of those things, which means that he could theoretically perceive them, he's just not at the moment. Well, as an ant I could be perceive all those things. I’m just not at the moment. There’s a big difference between being unable to perceive something and not currently perceiving it. You’re saying that the ant can experience the effects of those things, which means that he could theoretically perceive them, he’s just not at the moment.

]]> By: jay http://theta.codesimplicity.com/post/a-program-is-a-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-340 jay Thu, 09 Jul 2009 12:54:21 +0000 http://theta.codesimplicity.com/archives/12#comment-340 Ok, I understand what your saying but have you considered this. Imagine you're an ant walking down the sidewalk. Are you aware of the skysrapers and buildings. Infact are you aware of the people that are about to tread on you? Are you aware of the road? From the perspective of the ant all these objects cannot be perceived as such and yet they do exist and do eventually have an impact on the ants existance although from the ants perspective it is not noticable. If the ant were able to create a program or simulation of it's world the ant universe would be completely different to the world we recognise. The program would infact be a model of the ant's existance or perspective rather than a model of the entire universe that consists of skyscrapers roads etc. With this in mind the only way the ant could create an accurate model would be to extract itself from it's two dimensional world and observe from a three dimensional one. Obviously ants and also humans cannot do this we are stuck with our perspective and therefore cannot see the full picture. Paradoxically computers may enable us to prove the existance of these other perspectives but to model and experience this 'real' universe may be impossible. Ok, I understand what your saying but have you considered this. Imagine you’re an ant walking down the sidewalk. Are you aware of the skysrapers and buildings. Infact are you aware of the people that are about to tread on you? Are you aware of the road? From the perspective of the ant all these objects cannot be perceived as such and yet they do exist and do eventually have an impact on the ants existance although from the ants perspective it is not noticable. If the ant were able to create a program or simulation of it’s world the ant universe would be completely different to the world we recognise. The program would infact be a model of the ant’s existance or perspective rather than a model of the entire universe that consists of skyscrapers roads etc. With this in mind the only way the ant could create an accurate model would be to extract itself from it’s two dimensional world and observe from a three dimensional one. Obviously ants and also humans cannot do this we are stuck with our perspective and therefore cannot see the full picture. Paradoxically computers may enable us to prove the existance of these other perspectives but to model and experience this ‘real’ universe may be impossible.

]]> By: Max Kanat-Alexander http://theta.codesimplicity.com/post/a-program-is-a-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-339 Max Kanat-Alexander Thu, 09 Jul 2009 11:17:12 +0000 http://theta.codesimplicity.com/archives/12#comment-339 "The universe we observe could be entirely different to the actual universe we live in." While that's true, it's irrelevant, as anything that we can't perceive (or experience the effects of) isn't relevant to any practical knowledge. -Max “The universe we observe could be entirely different to the actual universe we live in.”

While that’s true, it’s irrelevant, as anything that we can’t perceive (or experience the effects of) isn’t relevant to any practical knowledge.

-Max

]]> By: jay http://theta.codesimplicity.com/post/a-program-is-a-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-338 jay Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:56:45 +0000 http://theta.codesimplicity.com/archives/12#comment-338 Interesting theory, but have you considered that the reason why a computer apparantly resembles the universe is not because of the universe itself but because of the method used to observe the universe ie the human brain. Just because the brain percieves there to be an object does not necessarily mean it exists or is in any perceived state. For example if you look up at the sky and see a star you will be looking at the star some millions of years in the past, infact the star at that point in time may no longer exist. Light takes a certain time to reach our eyes so our view of the universe is delayed. In a similar way we only view a very narrow band of radiation so as humans our perceptions are very limited. The universe we observe could be entirely different to the actual universe we live in. Interesting theory, but have you considered that the reason why a computer apparantly resembles the universe is not because of the universe itself but because of the method used to observe the universe ie the human brain. Just because the brain percieves there to be an object does not necessarily mean it exists or is in any perceived state. For example if you look up at the sky and see a star you will be looking at the star some millions of years in the past, infact the star at that point in time may no longer exist. Light takes a certain time to reach our eyes so our view of the universe is delayed. In a similar way we only view a very narrow band of radiation so as humans our perceptions are very limited. The universe we observe could be entirely different to the actual universe we live in.

]]> By: Max Kanat-Alexander http://theta.codesimplicity.com/post/a-program-is-a-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-121 Max Kanat-Alexander Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:22:12 +0000 http://theta.codesimplicity.com/archives/12#comment-121 Thanks! :-) You might be able to describe the state of the universe at any given moment in a mathematical sense (and thus as a program), but the one thing that a computer can't do is have volition, so volition acting upon the universe would change its state in a way that couldn't be described by a computer program. -Max Thanks! :-)

You might be able to describe the state of the universe at any given moment in a mathematical sense (and thus as a program), but the one thing that a computer can’t do is have volition, so volition acting upon the universe would change its state in a way that couldn’t be described by a computer program.

-Max

]]> By: Sriram http://theta.codesimplicity.com/post/a-program-is-a-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-120 Sriram Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:14:05 +0000 http://theta.codesimplicity.com/archives/12#comment-120 Spectacular conception. I've always suspected the more important vice-versa - That the universe we know could actually be a computer program. Spectacular conception. I’ve always suspected the more important vice-versa – That the universe we know could actually be a computer program.

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